Before you read this article, please read This article will challenge your political worldview: Addressing Europeans about America: What can the US and Europe learn from each other? And is America vs Europe a false dichotomy?.
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I will talk about Germany from the late 18th century to the present day. I will not speak about East Germany, as that it was a Soviet satellite state until 1990.
I have already criticized American culture and politics in other articles. Ditto for Christianity.
Keep in mind that I do NOT in any, way, shape, or form wish to promote hatred against German people. Every person is and should be judged as an individual. I am critiquing German culture and ideas. I do not believe that German people have below average intelligence for human beings, but rather that the majority of Germans have not been exposed to the same views as I have.
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Also, some of my very favorite countries in the world speak German and are ethno-genetically Celto-Germanic, with those countries being Leichtenstein and its guardian on the world stage, Switzerland. Austria is also high on my personal approval rating.
And, if political correctness and taxes were not factors, I would rather live in Germany than anywhere in Asia, as that Germans have more exposure to the enlightenment, value the individual more, and are not as harsh as Asians.
Now let's begin.
The Germans, in terms of achievement and contributions to art, philosophy, science, and engineering are a brilliant people. Germany is the 3rd largest developed country by population behind Japan and the United States of America, and more impressively, the 4th largest economy in the world even though it is only 17th largest by population.
In the early 19th century, many countries were consolidating or joining more power countries. This is a reason for Germany uniting, as that people naturally prefer to be ruled over by people of their own language and culture than by foreigners. From the late 1840's until the 1860's, there was a chance for Germany to become a liberal democracy, but obviously, this did not happen.
edit Democracy in germanic culture
While England was the great exporter of Puritanism (and caning), Germany is the birthplace of authoritarianism in the western hemisphere.
Don't believe me?
The following ideologies were all created either by German individuals or groups of German individuals;
. National Socialism.
. Prussian authoritarianism.
. Prussian schooling philosophy (also known as the "factory model" of education).
. Marxism.
. Frankfurt School divisive identity politics.
Germany did not get rid of its monarchy until after it surrendered in 1918 at the end of World War I, only to elect the National Socialist party into power over the next two decades (though to be fair, had the allies not punished Germany after World War I, there probably would not be such an extremist party coming into power as a reaction). And in the "European Heaven and Hell" joke, the police are German in European Hell (though Germany no longer has a gendarmerie, with civilians instead being policed by other civilians like in the English tradition, and most law enforcement is done by State governments and not the Federal Government).
To this very day, the world is suffering from Marxism and the Prussian schooling philosophy.
Ironically, according to Whatifalthist, democracy actually came from Germanic tribes, as mentioned in his videos How Does the West Work? and Is China Naturally Authoritarian?.
Though there are people who dispute his statement, with comment threads that I will link here;
Is China Naturally Authoritarian?
Is China Naturally Authoritarian?
Now, I will get into some theories on why this is the case.
I think that German collectivism is a reaction to so many wars being fought on German soil. Modern-day Germany was also surrounded by ambitious, imperialistic nations such as France, which pushed the Germans to collectivize and unite.
German collectivism might be an example how a cultural trait that might have made sense at one time and place can become maladaptive in another time and place.
Though something that is absolutely unbelievable is the Kinderfeindlichkeit (hostility toward children) in German culture.
The History of Child Abuse by Lloyd deMause | The Association for Psychohistory
The Political Consequences of Child Abuse by Alice Miller | The Association for Psychohistory
How the Nazi’s inhumane parenting guidelines may still be affecting German children - Big Think
Brutal Forms of Corporal Punishment - Strange Ago
I think this harshness towards children comes from a combination of a harsh warrior mentality (considering how many wars occurred within modern day Germany) combined with perfectionism taken to its logical conclusion.
The German's horrific child abuse is probably where the German stereotype of being emotionally cold comes from. No wonder why the dark philosophers Friedrich Nietzsche and especially, Arthur Schopenhauer, were both German (though I actually perfectly agree with Schopenhauer's worldview. I don't have an opinion about Nietzsche). Maybe Schopenhauer's blackpill (dark and pessamistic) worldview came from experiencing the atrocious hell of German childhood as with tens of millions of other Germans.
With Prussian/German imperialism, children from other European nations were forced to endure the abuses of Prussian/German schools. I think I know another reason why other European nations hate Germany and want to keep it down!
Fortunately, things have gotten leaps and bounds better, and Germans today are leaps and bounds more humane than their ancestors.
5 German Parenting Styles That Americans Should Learn From - Scary Mommy
How to Parent Like a German - TIME
The Validity of Nazi Comparisons - feat. Three Arrows
Dimitrijs Alehins's answer to Is Germany an INTJ country? - Quora
Ian Cassidy's answer to Do Germans see Germany as a collective society or rather individualistic like the way Americans see themselves? - Quora
"But in the day to day personal life, I think that Germans are considerably MORE individualistic than Irish people. They're less likely to offer a lift if they have a car. They are less likely to invite you for a drink, and less likely to share food. Doing common activities like work, or even voluntary work and hobbies, does not seem to have the bonding effect among Germans that it does among Irish people."
So again, what caused the rise of Hitler and the National Socialists?
If you ask Lloyd Demause and Alice Miller, it was the extreme child abuse that is common in German culture.
If you ask Sargon of Akkad, it was German culture of collectivism, lack of moderation, and obsession with taking things to their logical conclusion.
If you ask Ryan Dawson and Angry Foreigner, it was Germany being beaten down and punished with the Treaty of Versailles.
I personally think that it was some mixture of all three of these.
Though I do admit that I am not sure of Lloyd Demause's psychohistory is credible. Many other members of academia does not see it as credible. Due to how little discussion there is of psychohistory, I just am not completely sure either way.
When it comes to why modern parents love their children and why past parents are infanticidal, aside from culture, perhaps our genetics manifest in diferent ways according to our environment.
"For centuries, people wondered if our personalities were more dependent upon our genes or our upbringings. What science discovered is it's really a combination. Genetics affects basically everything in our personalities down to a ridiculous degree like whether you like jazz or what political party you're most likely to vote for. However, cultural influences are also really important in letting those genes manifest. Even siblings with similar genes have those genes manifest in different directions based on their friend groups, years they were born in, etc. A person whose genes might lead them to vote republican today might vote for the Liberal Wigs in 19th Century Britain and enjoy Fox Hunting rather than listening to heavy metal."
- Twelve Lies about Reality. by Whatifalthist.
One big problem that I have with Germany that is a hell of a lot more concerned with policing people's speech (Network Enforcement Act) than stopping the export of weapons to Saudi Arabia, a regime that is borderline totalitarian, in which women had no rights until very recently, exports Wahabism, which is is the ideology some of the very most barbaric terrorists in the whole world, and is waging war on Yemen, which is the poorest country in the middle east other than Palestine.
If Germany (the country, not the individual German) was personified, I would say that she deserved to be taken down a peg in the early 20th century. Germany exported authoritarianism to the world, and authoritarianism came back to bite her. Even if we count, for example, NATO's cold-war era interventionism and the United States (and to a lesser degree, the United Kingdom) helping Saudi Arabia promote Islamic fundamentalism, it is still a reaction to Marxian socialism/communism, which was created by Karl Marx, who was born and raised in Germany. The Chinese Communist Party also uses communism to justify its existence and its absolutely atrocious human rights record (and that is before talking about the lack of animal cruelty laws or the destruction of China's environment), and both Communist China and the Soviet Union have backed left-authoritarian movements and states that are still causing harm today.
I wish that Bavaria and the other southern German states joined Austria instead of Germany, so that they would not be forced to live under Prussian authoritarianism.
As much as I criticize Germany, I do have a few good things to say about it. While Germany has a history of authoritarianism and one of the very most collectivist cultures in Europe, individual freedom in Germany somewhat zigzagged, as that Germany today is quasi-libertarian on what are, for the most part, trivial, petty issues, being:
. Prostitution is legal.
. Uniforms being optional in government schools (ironic for a nation that has a history of unbelievably horrific child abuse, the birthplace of the authoritarian Prussian schooling philosophy, and totalitarian philosophies of Marxism and National Socialism).
. No speed limits on some highways (to make up for the lengthy and expensive licensing process and vehicle inspections).
. Relatively liberal licensing regime according to the Nanny State Index.
. Named as "the best country to drink, smoke, vape and eat in the EU" by the Nanny State Index.
. No registration, license, or even a background check to get airguns (so long as the muzzle energy of said airguns do not exeed 7.5 joules, or 5.5 foot pounds).
. No registration, license, or even a background check to buy or own muzzle-loading flintlock firearms (or guns of an earlier design) (however, purchasing gunpowder does require a license unless it is brought on and only used on a shooting range).
An important (albeit still not groundbreaking) German policy that I like is: having Mixed Member Proportional Representation. While Mixed Member Proportional Representation is not my absolute favorite system (as explained in my article Electoral System Comparison), it is the best system that is in use today.
According to the electowiki article on PLACE voting, "the German mixed-member "proportional" method, a party that gets less than 5% or 2 direct seats does not get a proportional allotment of seats. Thus, technically speaking, even the German system is really only semiproportional, not truly proportional."
German Federalism is a mixed bag at best, if not simply too weak in my personal opinion.
German states do have a few meaningful powers, namely having their own armed police, prisons, most aspects of education, along with "the press, freedom of assembly, public housing, corrections and media affairs, among others". While the states are allowed to have their own armed police and independent judiciary, German federalism is more about just preventing dictatorships than giving true local autonomy, as that the Federal Government can override the states on important issues such as weapon laws, criminal laws, age of majority, school leaving age, "business law, civil law, welfare, taxation, consumer protection, public holidays, and public health", and more.
After World War II, West Germany and unified Germany have made huge strides in terms of human rights, the government is far less harsh and callus than it used to be, and Germany today is a Constitutional, Representative Republic with a mixed-market economy.
While Germany is vary far from my ideal, modern Germany has nonetheless made many improvements from its past, but unfortunately, .
I do feel bad for the modern German people. Militarism and imperialism is wrong. Self-hatred is also wrong. However, I really wish that they used more independent thought, and subscribed to a view of individual rights that is more in line with the English, in which individual rights are absolute and are not grated by the state or come from the state, but are still protected by the state.
"Very awesome video!
Sargon points out the irony of the German leftest (or leftest German?) Mindset.
Simultaneously arguing that the "evil right wingers" are just like lemmings, allegedly displaying a herd mindset, while being full blown collectivists, displaying a herd mentality.
Hating all people who argue the value of German or western culture, since they view the idea of supremacy detestable while simultaneously regarding their own world view, values, and in a sense (sub)culture, as the absolute supreme one.
It seems that we Germans have a tendency to make everything work like a well oiled machine. As long as you're in the realm of machines, that's awesome.
When applying the same mindset to society, things go wrong. It has caused one complete meltdown already, in the WW2 era, I think we're witnessing the 2nd meltdown currently, where Germany forces the new "supreme ideology" of multiculturalism in itself and the EU member states, in a similar fashion as it was done last time. Thus far, the only upside of the current iteration is, that it's less violent.
Germany should really stick to itself instead of trying to tell others what to do or how to live their life or how to run their country.
I agree with Sargons assessment of the Rammstein song "Deutschland" and it resonated quite deeply with me.
It's the duality of the light of great minds as well as the striving towards morally pure action on the one hand and the deep, pitch black darkness that we've left in our wake.
If love is bitter sweat pain, then love for ones country and mindset for Germans has a special emphasis on the bitter and the pain part.
Cheers :)"
Fin:
"The continental view of rights....Those that are given by the state. The consequence of this is that they can therefore be taken AWAY by the state and the state determines the universal nature (all Germans, all French etc...) of rights. It is collectivist by nature.
The English view of rights.....You can do ANYTHING so long as it is not against the law. Therefore the individual chooses what to do, it can be anything that the individual wants, and is not determined by the state. Your rights cannot be taken away by the state, because your rights are inherent to your humanity.
The difference may seem minor, but it changes how you think. It is what is behind Brexit, and our departure from the EU....the EU is the ultimate state, and its existence does not fit into our view of how to live."
Tylr:
"Yeah, agreed. After 3 years in germany, the germans are fundamentally different to the english and even more so the american. There philosophy on government was far too passive for me and did not have a vigorous defense of individual rights. From freedom of speech to self defense, their policy was , "I'll just elect someone else, but until then I'll follow the rules...we r one people." Which drove me batty. I'm pretty far in the libertarian American direction and leaving your survival to someone else's vote is damn near unthinkable."
"American as with most English speaking people (though Americans are fiercely so) are of the mindset of individualism with loose cooperation with a weak government. The pride and love of country in these states is based on their love of that individual freedom. Germans, as you stated so well, are fiercely bound to the group and motherland. Individualism doesn’t even come second, from my observation.
That being said, as long as a group values individualism, there is no chance that the Nazi mindset can gain dominance. There are a few deluded, such as antifa, but the whole cannot, by nature, descend into that madness."
"Interesting. But, Germany wasn't really a unified country until relatively recently. I think the truth is a touch more nuanced. I think Bertrand Russel described it (I might be wrong. Read History of Western Philosophy almost a decade ago) as a bunch of warring princes. Which is honestly true of all of Europe and pretty much everywhere else but Empire seems to be a Roman invention, which was pursued in a highly collectivistic fashion by the Germans at a time when that emerging nation state was trying to herd cats, the extremism of this allergic reaction to being bordered by France, England, and other ambitious well developed states was no doubt fueled by the philosophical peculiarities you mentioned. I think that every land has a folk culture and an idea of themselves. I think 'Us Germans' does place certain seeds in people's heads but at the same time a Saxon is not a Prussian, and a Prussian is not a Hessian...etc. Again, the video was good, the points were interesting and well supported but I can't help but feel that there needs to be some more nuance.
On a limbic level...I really don't have a dog in this fight. I'm Russian American and view the Germans/English as very close cousins (to each other not Russia). I mean how else do you explain banning knives instead of arresting the stab happy?"
"I've heard many times that the language you speak influences how you view the world. This is difficult for me to understand as I only speak English (the American version...lol). I teach at a community college in Texas and I've had many discussion with students that speak both Spanish and English. I've asked them if they "think" in Spanish and English. Every single one of them has said "It depends." I find that very interesting. I don't know what to make of it, though. Their elaboration on this point, when asked, has not really clarified the idea for me, either. Anyway, I suppose it's possible that language does have a profound influence on how and individual views the world. I just don't understand how......at this point.
With that stated, I've had many encounters (working relationships) with Germans.....from my days as an undergrad and in industry. Not to offend any Germans, because I like Germans..... a lot, but there is no question they are just different from English (or even Spanish, Chinese.....hell, even Canadians...lol) speakers. I've never been able to "get on" with any of them....unless beer was involved. Again, not to say I didn't get along with them....but it's never been easy. I do admire their culture and great deal, though. Their positive contributions to the world are remarkable. God help us if they are ever 500-million strong.....lol.
You also failed to mention the Declaration of Independence as example of the preeminence (or at least equal standing) of individual rights over that of the State in English political thought. Sure, there is some irony there, but without the many centuries of this political viewpoint developed by the English there would be no Declaration of Independence. I'm not an expert in this area but I do not have any knowledge that this political viewpoint originated in other area of the world.
Finally, I fear the United States may be closer to some style of Nazism (fascism, Marxism...not a whole lot of difference, IMO) than you may realize. I consider myself to be "liberal". However, the Democrats have moved so far left??? that I feel stranded......almost politically isolated. In fact, Trump (who, twenty years ago, I would've never considered voting for) looks "moderate" to me. I do not recognize the "progressive" side of politics in the United States. It scares the shit out of me. I just don't understand how Trump (through innuendo, ONLY) can be so widely characterized as a racist while at the same time openly racist (and sexist) rhetoric from the so-called progressives gets a pass. The most bone-chilling thought about all of this is that there must be a significantly sized political base that thinks this way.....otherwise they wouldn't be getting the air time. Anywhoo....turn the page. Let's see what history brings."
"Germans: We Germans...(owned collective)
English: The English...(unowned collective)
American: As an American...(recognizes the group but still independent)
Interesting how it seems to reflect cultural standpoints."
relle zahl:
"I would argue though, that Germans give much more credence to authorities (teachers, people with titles, etc.) more readily than in Britain and the US. This has advantages and disadvantages: the disadvantage is the seeming inflexibility of young people to think for themselves, as opposed to immediately finding an authoritative figure and accepting what he/she says"
Playing devil's advocate:
"This is an interesting video, but I must criticize it for its overt and excessive English nationalism. You act as if the English had invented liberty and brought the torch of freedom to all the other peoples who had been sitting in the dark realm of tyranny. But this simply isn't true. And especially Germany had actually been regarded as a beacon of freedom until the 19th century.
At first, you have to understand that the German people wasn't invented by Bismarck or didn't fall down from the sky in the late 18th century. The German people as a palpable ethnic, cultural, linguistic, and even political group has existed for as long as the English, the French, or the Poles.
And secondly, the Germans had a very liberal, anti-tyrannical government until the 19th century. You have your Magna Carta, we have the Golden Bull of 1356; you have your parliament, we have the Imperial Diet; you have your rights of an Englishman, we have our "libertas Germanorum" (Liberty of the Germans) which included the idea that every German had inalienable basic rights such as the right to property or the right to a fair trial. When English kings like Henry VIII still reigned supreme, could have every single one of their subjects beheaded, and influence court rulings, Germans already enjoyed independant courts such as the Aulic Council or the Imperial Chamber Court.
When entire countries expelled their Jewish population at one time or the other, Germany never saw such a nation-wide exodus. Only individual estates tried to do that, but the Jews had the same rights and the same fair jurisdiction, and could take their immediate ruling princes to the imperial courts and win.
And Germany managed a religious peace. How many European countries exist that have been evenly split between Protestants and Catholics for 500 years? There were serious conflicts, such as the 30 Years War, which was just as much about political questions as it was about religious ones, but from 1648 onwards, a perpetual peace between these denominations existed, and every German had the basic right to follow their religion. For centuries, Protestant Germans such as those in the Free Imperial City of Francfort did, at the end of their Protestant service, pray for the Catholic Emperor in Vienna. Were England and France as tolerant about their countrymen who did not belong to the king's denomination?
All of this you should know and take into consideration when you muse about the "inherent liberty in Englishmen" and the tyranny reigning everywhere else. If, and I stress if, a divergence did occur between German and English thought, it can only have happened in the late 18th century because thitherto Germany was no less free than glorious England."
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